The ever changing world.The stresses of the 21st century! Problems far greater than any dialouge between theists and secularists.
Romantics,Rationalists,transcendentalists,adherents to the cause of Anti-Orwellian society,and on and on!
For the past few years(5-7)I have kept a small amount of attention on the rise of Psychotropic Drugs.Anti-Depressants!I have seen numbers batted around on the estimated percentage of people who are on these drugs.Big drugs.Prozac,Zoloft,Lithium and all the others that I see being ADVERTISED ON TV.(not that lithium is).
Am I correct in in stating that every 3rd or 4th or 5th person I come into contact with is under the “cure"these drugs offer?
The audacity of submission-a chemically administered lobotomy!!How many of these folks consider themselves “free thinkers”?Are they?Romanticism?Ideology?What becomes of “rationality”?
It becomes completly tautological for us to inject Political Correctness in this dialogue.Who states what is correct?The millions of folks on these “substances”?Are there that many people who are incapable of dealing with life?
Can we say that a “Society”,and not an “individual"is being treated?And if we can say a Society is being treated,then what?
Submission!!What change can a “submissive” society call out for?
If the percentage is even 25%,including new legions of children being treated for ADD and depression,then what?What about those folks who wish to carry on a dialogue concerning rationality,who are not being “treated” for some disorder?
Can it be said that my attention to this phenomenom is irreverant?Can It?I don’t think so.Not if we are to be clinical in our observation.Not if we REALLY want to uncover the “Body Psychology”
Orwell Indeed!!Perhaps this is all part of the new hue and cry over redundant Wedge Issues.Superflorous sticking points in a society who is completely bombed out on a regimen of Anti-depressants and Hyper-capitalism.
Are there that many people who are incapable of dealing with life?
Have you ever noticed how many people wear glasses? Are there that many people who have a problem with their sight? Eyes, brain, what’s the difference?
I agree that many people are given these medications, and occasionally some are just prescribed to get an annoying patient out of the doctor’s hair. However, I’m not sure of how much more prevalent their use is. Earlier, the pharma companies didn’t publically advertise. Now, they do, so it seems as if the drugs are being prescribed much more.
Of course many of us enjoy some of the milder psychotropic drugs. I always enjoyed the increased awareness and minor speed of though from a cup of coffee, or the relaxation from a glass of wine.
There are problems, however. Recently I saw an article suggesting that older people should have a couple of drugs that increase cognition made much more easily available to them. One was Ritalin and I didn’t recognize the other. I googled it and saw that it was a blend of amphetamine and methamphetamine. Yeah, sure, just what I need - to take my daily dose of “speed”, and Ritalin is chemically and physiologically pretty similar.
But you’re right Vyazma; severely reduced school budgets, much higher college tuition, constant propaganda from O’reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, and much of the religious pulpits, tons of dumb TV shows and movies aren’t enough to paralyze the citizens. We get to do it with interesting drugs. I’m surprised that the pharmaceutical industry hasn’t pushed to make them over-the-counter so they could sell even more to more people.
Also Occam,I should have placed more attention on the rapidly rising number of children on these substances. Children in educational institutions are being screened by their teachers and support staff.They are being “diagnosed with disorders” and in some instances are being given barriers to their education,unless recommended treatments are adherred to.This is the Zenith of mass introductrion of behavioral modification.Ritalin,Prozac,others I have forgotten the words of.The names of the “meds"don’t matter though-it amounts to Chemical Lobotomization.For Kids.Risperdal.That was the other name.Xanax too.
This speaks volumes about the condition of the will of the people.Volumes.
Are there that many people who are incapable of dealing with life?
Have you ever noticed how many people wear glasses? Are there that many people who have a problem with their sight? Eyes, brain, what’s the difference?
Yes George,in the case of eyeglasses that would determine an amount of people who have trouble with their eyesight.Not to mention people who wear contacts or have had corrective surgery.
Eyes and brains?I think you know the difference.I must say that your comment looked out of place,contextually,above the quote from Checkov.It was kind of comical.
Are there that many people who are incapable of dealing with life?
Have you ever noticed how many people wear glasses? Are there that many people who have a problem with their sight? Eyes, brain, what’s the difference?
WAIT JUST A MINUTE! I wear glasses! After a certain age, most people wear glasses or contacts—-unless they don’t go to the ophthalmologist to have their eyes checked regularly! I’ll just bet a high percentage of those posting on the board wear glasses/contacts or use some other sight aid! (and I don’t think there is anything wrong with my brain—-there IS a big difference)
As for the prescriptions for normal childhood rambunctiousness and to make up for poor parenting skills; It just seems that the teachers nowadays don’t want to be bothered with the children on that side of the spectrum, and simply label and recommend drugging.
As for the prescriptions for normal childhood rambunctiousness and to make up for poor parenting skills; It just seems that the teachers nowadays don’t want to be bothered with the children on that side of the spectrum, and simply label and recommend drugging.
Yes Asanta,and although the “Ice Pick” method of lobotomization was streamlined down to a fast out-patient procedure,it still had drawbacks,and was only administered in the thousands.The new chemicals they have now are far more “acceptable”,socially and professionally.Of course they are being administered in the millions of “patients”
All I was trying to say, Asanta, is that if there are that many people who wear glasses, why couldn’t there also be many people who need antidepressant? Vyazma doesn’t know what he is talking about.
All I was trying to say, Asanta, is that if there are that many people who wear glasses, why couldn’t there also be many people who need antidepressant? Vyazma doesn’t know what he is talking about.
What I’m talking about,is a real issue.I know exactly what I’m talking about.So do thousands of other people,including Mental Health Proffessionals,Doctors,and Scientists.As well as researchers and journalists.Many of them are talking about exactly what I’m talking about here.
I knew beforehand,that this was going to ruffle the feathers of some people who are trying to maintain that perfect balance of Political Correctness and Rational Thought.Obviously one reason for this is the already deep-seated,proliferation of these treatments.Obviously there is a wide strata of conditions that would promote the proliferation of these drugs.
Of course for the past 15-25 years progressive health science/industries have been trying to fling wide the Iron Doors of the oft secret and stigmatized Mental Health World.As the stigmas of race and sexuality are slowly ebbing,so too must the stigma of Psychology and Mental Health.And rightly so!
This has a little to do with my Thread.This thread is designed to address the proliferation of the diagnosis and treatment of these “disorders” on a mass scale.And to address what becomes of a societies “Free Will” ,its Collective cohesiveness.
Science is arguing right now about these effects,and their possible stunting of certain creative and abstract reasoning skills,as well as emotional response.
Yes George,I know what I’m talking about,but if you don’t want to talk about it that’s fine.But don’t start in with the automatic defensive,arguments for the sake of “correctness”.This is a scientific,rational,issue,that is being discussed the world over.It has a long,long history,which predates Modern Chemistry.
And I believe it runs parallel with other social/behavioral constructs,including engineering,and Politics.Of course it can be proven that it also runs parallel to Big Pharma and Capitalistic economic factors.
Vyazma, are you starting with the assumption that everybody’s brains are naturally rational? If so, I disagree. I have a genetic predisposition towards insufficient production or conservation of serotonin; the problem appears in much of my family. This serotonin shortage in my brain induced irrational behavior. I am now taking a medication that restores the serotonin concentrations in my brain to values more like those of normal people—values that I had when I was younger. Does that medication constitute an unnatural alteration the functioning of my brain or a restoration to natural conditions?
Vyazma, are you starting with the assumption that everybody’s brains are naturally rational? If so, I disagree. I have a genetic predisposition towards insufficient production or conservation of serotonin; the problem appears in much of my family. This serotonin shortage in my brain induced irrational behavior. I am now taking a medication that restores the serotonin concentrations in my brain to values more like those of normal people—values that I had when I was younger. Does that medication constitute an unnatural alteration the functioning of my brain or a restoration to natural conditions?
On your last question.Did you ever discuss that with your doctor?Of course unless you were willing to take an altruistic stance towards your condition,and forego treatment,then the question is really moot.I’m assuming the irrational behavior you experience is such,that the way in which you wish to experience life is hindered.Your first question answers your last question.What is the definition of a natural rational brain?Like I said,this is moot.What does matter is that you are taking steps,which completely involve your free will,to treat that disorder,so that you can exist as comfortable as you wish.
I don’t want to digress from my vein,which seeks to address the massive proliferation of a whole range of Pharmaceuticals designed to improve “the perceived notion of societal mental health”,and the marketeering and whole history of addressing common social and emotional ills with the most expedient,and sometimes damaging tools.
Unfortunately,my personal traits are sometimes too cold and clinical to address your points Chris.I fully recognize the need for medicines drugs and substances to treat all kinds of ills.Many of them are fully justified.Are there grey areas?Yes.Are there Black/Dark areas-Yes!!
A quick look at the treatment of mental health disorders going back for centuries.
A view of the FDA and their rapid approval of some drugs as opposed to other drugs.
The massive marketing campaign in TV,Radio,Magazines and Doctors offices.
The obvious desire of the Establishment to have people living tranquily as opposed to frantically.
A quick view of the public outcry concerning the institutionalization of these meds in children and adults.
The massive use of these meds in prisons and by the United States armed forces.
And on and on….I don’t wish to discuss individual cases here.I’m talking about Societal Engineering.Soma!!1984 stuff.Too conspiratorial?Yeah,I hated to put this last part in,but I want the discussion to center around these ideas,not individual cases or diagnostic techniques.
And I can’t emphasise enough Chris,that I do not wish to look upon anyone with stigma.In your case,great!!Good for you.I’m not judging anyones illness.I’m not judging anyones perceived illness.I fully recognise that cases of Mental health are no different than having a case of Influenza or a sprained ankle-completely treatable and totally mundane.
OK, let’s discuss this as a social phenomenon rather than a medical one. I agree that we have greatly expanded the use of drugs to cope with behavioral problems. This is particularly worrisome in the case of ADD children; is ADD truly a disorder or is it merely an expression of the exuberance of childhood? Is it appropriate to calm children down so that they can sit quietly in classrooms?
I am not philosophically opposed to the massive use of drugs to help people adjust to modern society. The fact is, modern society is an artifice that we’re not built to cope with, and it imposes stresses that our brains can’t always handle. So, theoretically, if we could find a drug that helps people cope with those stresses, I see no problem. The difficulty, of course, is that we really don’t know what the full effects of these drugs are. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a drug to help people cope with sitting in traffic jams? Traffic jams are a part of modern life and they are very stressful. I think it would be great if you could just pop a traffic jam pill and be able to sit in stalled traffic, happily humming along the radio. But what happens when you get home and you’re still under the influence of the drug? Will it dull your senses to the real issues at home? We don’t know—and that’s why I agree with you that the mass use of such drugs is worrisome.
About 15 years ago there were a couple of books that addressed some of these issues: “Listening to Prozac” and “Talking Back to Prozac”. The first one asked whether we should embrace personality-altering drugs if their effects are beneficial. The second one challenged this. The first was more philosophical in tone. They both give much food for thought.
I have no conclusions on this question. While it is easy in individual cases to establish the beneficial effect of such drugs, when we take the larger view and consider the overall social effects, there remain many difficult problems.
The audacity of submission-a chemically administered lobotomy!!
You’re kidding, right? There’s plenty of room for debate about the use of psychotropic drugs, but this hysterical hyperbole shows a complete lack of understanding of mental health issues or what these drugs do. The implication that there is some monolithic “Establishment” trying to tranquilize the masses is also ridiculous. There are real social and cultural and medical phenomena here, but I think you’re on the wrong track.
The question is why do so many people feel unhappy or unable to cope with the sorrows of life and to what extent is this an illness or a natural part of human experience. And does the answer to this lie in medication. I suspect we’d largely agree about the answer to that question, but I don’t think it’s political correctness (which is almost always a copout) to deny your basic claims about the drugs or the underlying sinister intention of that vague bogeyman “The Establishment,” (another copout).
FWIW, I think as a culture we have too great a belief in our own power to perfect things. We think we should be able to eliminate pain and suffering, as if these were not endemic to the human condition. We also have more “free time” and less real physical struggle than most in the world, so we create existential struggles. And while we have properly made the physical state of human life much more comfortable with our “can do” attitude, at some point we have to accept that not all suffering can be engineered out of life. I think a cultural attitude shift would do a lot to reduce the appeal of these drugs. Still, even though we don’t want to get into individual cases, decisions about mental health status and treatment are intrinsically individual decisions, and any such sweeping generalization we make about the use of psychotropic drugs ignores all the important facts about each individual who takes them. We should be a bit humble about such statements, since we can’t walk in anybody’s shoes but our own.
